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Vestigial limbs can easily be explained by evolution. An animal species with limbs finds that the environment has changed in such a way that the niche it is occupying is such that legs are not an advantage anymore. Thus it evolves into a species without limbs. However these lizards still have the vestigial remains on these legs inside their bodies.
Now whether you believe in evolution or not you must admit that this story explains the facts here. Other things like the birds 'teeth', our appendix etc can be explained in the same way. One up to evolution then.
How does Creationism fare here? Rather poorly. God for some reason just made these lizards with some totally useless bones which look like the remains of legs. It is hard to think why he would do that. [Unless it is to try our faith!]
What do you think?
Laurie 
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Replying to:
>Why do birds have the remnants of teeth when they are in the egg but which do not develop?<
Depends on what you are calling 'teeth'.
>Why are there some lizards which do not have legs but have inside there bodies vestigial leg bones?<
Why do we have an appendix? It is useless, but there. It is a good question, but there are those who will tell you that the whale would not be able to have walked on legs(can't remember where i read that now) yet 'appears' to have the same situation of vestigial hips (I think)
>Evolution explains this with ease but Creationism? I wait with interest.<
Nooooo, evolution does NOT explain this with ease at all, that is a very over confident statement.
How does a creationist explain it? They were made that way. How can I say that? Because you will NEVER find a fossil that is in the transitional stages, showing the legs starting to disappear, etc.
Hope this helps, Julian.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
Why do birds have the remnants of teeth when they are in the egg but which do not develop?
Why are there some lizards which do not have legs but have inside there bodies vestigial leg bones?
Evolution explains this with ease but Creationism? I wait with interest.
Laurie
Email: mgt.harris@btinternet.com
You have said the one thing that I personally reckon. Yes, I do believe they were created for the very purpose of giving those who want to challenge Him, just enough to delude themselves. This I cannot prove, but it the way I see it indeed.(Now I will get a lot of questions....LOL)
You missed my point, there are NO fossils showing these changes, so the 'vestgial limbs' are there in all the fossils. How do you expain that?
Best regards, Julian.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
Vestigial limbs can easily be explained by evolution. An animal species with limbs finds that the environment has changed in such a way that the niche it is occupying is such that legs are not an advantage anymore. Thus it evolves into a species without limbs. However these lizards still have the vestigial remains on these legs inside their bodies.
Now whether you believe in evolution or not you must admit that this story explains the facts here. Other things like the birds 'teeth', our appendix etc can be explained in the same way. One up to evolution then.
How does Creationism fare here? Rather poorly. God for some reason just made these lizards with some totally useless bones which look like the remains of legs. It is hard to think why he would do that. [Unless it is to try our faith!]
What do you think?
Laurie
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
>Why do birds have the remnants of teeth when they are in the egg but which do not develop?<
Depends on what you are calling 'teeth'.
>Why are there some lizards which do not have legs but have inside there bodies vestigial leg bones?<
Why do we have an appendix? It is useless, but there. It is a good question, but there are those who will tell you that the whale would not be able to have walked on legs(can't remember where i read that now) yet 'appears' to have the same situation of vestigial hips (I think)
>Evolution explains this with ease but Creationism? I wait with interest.<
Nooooo, evolution does NOT explain this with ease at all, that is a very over confident statement.
How does a creationist explain it? They were made that way. How can I say that? Because you will NEVER find a fossil that is in the transitional stages, showing the legs starting to disappear, etc.
Hope this helps, Julian.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
Why do birds have the remnants of teeth when they are in the egg but which do not develop?
Why are there some lizards which do not have legs but have inside there bodies vestigial leg bones?
Evolution explains this with ease but Creationism? I wait with interest.
Laurie
Email: kingdomsearcher@msn.com
I am off for the weekend so a quick response.
1. To say that God did something to test our faith is an all purpose 'get out' whenever there are difficulties. It was famously done in Victorian times when geologists told us that the earth was more than the 4,004 years that some scholar had worked out that elapsed since creation according to the Bible. God had made the world then but had deliberately made it look older to test our faith! Certainly tested mins.
2. Please refer to my post on transitional fossils.
Regards
Laurie
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Replying to:
You have said the one thing that I personally reckon. Yes, I do believe they were created for the very purpose of giving those who want to challenge Him, just enough to delude themselves. This I cannot prove, but it the way I see it indeed.(Now I will get a lot of questions....LOL)
You missed my point, there are NO fossils showing these changes, so the 'vestgial limbs' are there in all the fossils. How do you expain that?
Best regards, Julian.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
Vestigial limbs can easily be explained by evolution. An animal species with limbs finds that the environment has changed in such a way that the niche it is occupying is such that legs are not an advantage anymore. Thus it evolves into a species without limbs. However these lizards still have the vestigial remains on these legs inside their bodies.
Now whether you believe in evolution or not you must admit that this story explains the facts here. Other things like the birds 'teeth', our appendix etc can be explained in the same way. One up to evolution then.
How does Creationism fare here? Rather poorly. God for some reason just made these lizards with some totally useless bones which look like the remains of legs. It is hard to think why he would do that. [Unless it is to try our faith!]
What do you think?
Laurie
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
>Why do birds have the remnants of teeth when they are in the egg but which do not develop?<
Depends on what you are calling 'teeth'.
>Why are there some lizards which do not have legs but have inside there bodies vestigial leg bones?<
Why do we have an appendix? It is useless, but there. It is a good question, but there are those who will tell you that the whale would not be able to have walked on legs(can't remember where i read that now) yet 'appears' to have the same situation of vestigial hips (I think)
>Evolution explains this with ease but Creationism? I wait with interest.<
Nooooo, evolution does NOT explain this with ease at all, that is a very over confident statement.
How does a creationist explain it? They were made that way. How can I say that? Because you will NEVER find a fossil that is in the transitional stages, showing the legs starting to disappear, etc.
Hope this helps, Julian.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
Why do birds have the remnants of teeth when they are in the egg but which do not develop?
Why are there some lizards which do not have legs but have inside there bodies vestigial leg bones?
Evolution explains this with ease but Creationism? I wait with interest.
Laurie
Email: mgt.harris@btinternet.com
1) I dont't think Ushers dating method has ever been universlly accepted by Christians, I certainly do NOT say the calculations are satisfactory. So dating creation from scripture is NOT something I have ever held with.
Therefore, I do NOT know when the date was, and do not feel there is adequate evidence to show a date working on Ushers calculations.
2) Your post on transitioal fossils? Sorry, I think you missed the point. Where is there a fossil showing any ONE of the changes in any ONE of the species that supposedly lost/gained NEW structres in their anatomy? There are none, and this is the point I was making. You would have at least SOME fossils showing limbs STARTING to become redundant, ot NEW limbs in development. It is ridiculous in the extreme to think an animal just lost a limb one day, or just sprouted a new one!!!! This is the point I am making, check it out with a scientist, they will confirm that this is a conundrum for evolutionary theory.
A good book (if still available) written by a scientist, not a creationist was 'The neck of the Giraffe (or where evolution is wrong)' something like that anyway. It blew many assumptions out of the water. There is also one called 'Darwins black Box', I have just been reading it (but can't put my hand on it right now- typical!) I suggest you do read some of the critisism of the theory put forward by the 'experts' you have so much faith in, it is by NO means as one sided as you think.
Have a good weekend, Julian.
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Replying to:
I am off for the weekend so a quick response.
1. To say that God did something to test our faith is an all purpose 'get out' whenever there are difficulties. It was famously done in Victorian times when geologists told us that the earth was more than the 4,004 years that some scholar had worked out that elapsed since creation according to the Bible. God had made the world then but had deliberately made it look older to test our faith! Certainly tested mins.
2. Please refer to my post on transitional fossils.
Regards
Laurie
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
You have said the one thing that I personally reckon. Yes, I do believe they were created for the very purpose of giving those who want to challenge Him, just enough to delude themselves. This I cannot prove, but it the way I see it indeed.(Now I will get a lot of questions....LOL)
You missed my point, there are NO fossils showing these changes, so the 'vestgial limbs' are there in all the fossils. How do you expain that?
Best regards, Julian.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
Vestigial limbs can easily be explained by evolution. An animal species with limbs finds that the environment has changed in such a way that the niche it is occupying is such that legs are not an advantage anymore. Thus it evolves into a species without limbs. However these lizards still have the vestigial remains on these legs inside their bodies.
Now whether you believe in evolution or not you must admit that this story explains the facts here. Other things like the birds 'teeth', our appendix etc can be explained in the same way. One up to evolution then.
How does Creationism fare here? Rather poorly. God for some reason just made these lizards with some totally useless bones which look like the remains of legs. It is hard to think why he would do that. [Unless it is to try our faith!]
What do you think?
Laurie
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
>Why do birds have the remnants of teeth when they are in the egg but which do not develop?<
Depends on what you are calling 'teeth'.
>Why are there some lizards which do not have legs but have inside there bodies vestigial leg bones?<
Why do we have an appendix? It is useless, but there. It is a good question, but there are those who will tell you that the whale would not be able to have walked on legs(can't remember where i read that now) yet 'appears' to have the same situation of vestigial hips (I think)
>Evolution explains this with ease but Creationism? I wait with interest.<
Nooooo, evolution does NOT explain this with ease at all, that is a very over confident statement.
How does a creationist explain it? They were made that way. How can I say that? Because you will NEVER find a fossil that is in the transitional stages, showing the legs starting to disappear, etc.
Hope this helps, Julian.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
Why do birds have the remnants of teeth when they are in the egg but which do not develop?
Why are there some lizards which do not have legs but have inside there bodies vestigial leg bones?
Evolution explains this with ease but Creationism? I wait with interest.
Laurie
Email: kingdomsearcher@msn.com
fossils!
Laurie
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
1) I dont't think Ushers dating method has ever been universlly accepted by Christians, I certainly do NOT say the calculations are satisfactory. So dating creation from scripture is NOT something I have ever held with.
Therefore, I do NOT know when the date was, and do not feel there is adequate evidence to show a date working on Ushers calculations.
2) Your post on transitioal fossils? Sorry, I think you missed the point. Where is there a fossil showing any ONE of the changes in any ONE of the species that supposedly lost/gained NEW structres in their anatomy? There are none, and this is the point I was making. You would have at least SOME fossils showing limbs STARTING to become redundant, ot NEW limbs in development. It is ridiculous in the extreme to think an animal just lost a limb one day, or just sprouted a new one!!!! This is the point I am making, check it out with a scientist, they will confirm that this is a conundrum for evolutionary theory.
A good book (if still available) written by a scientist, not a creationist was 'The neck of the Giraffe (or where evolution is wrong)' something like that anyway. It blew many assumptions out of the water. There is also one called 'Darwins black Box', I have just been reading it (but can't put my hand on it right now- typical!) I suggest you do read some of the critisism of the theory put forward by the 'experts' you have so much faith in, it is by NO means as one sided as you think.
Have a good weekend, Julian.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
I am off for the weekend so a quick response.
1. To say that God did something to test our faith is an all purpose 'get out' whenever there are difficulties. It was famously done in Victorian times when geologists told us that the earth was more than the 4,004 years that some scholar had worked out that elapsed since creation according to the Bible. God had made the world then but had deliberately made it look older to test our faith! Certainly tested mins.
2. Please refer to my post on transitional fossils.
Regards
Laurie
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
You have said the one thing that I personally reckon. Yes, I do believe they were created for the very purpose of giving those who want to challenge Him, just enough to delude themselves. This I cannot prove, but it the way I see it indeed.(Now I will get a lot of questions....LOL)
You missed my point, there are NO fossils showing these changes, so the 'vestgial limbs' are there in all the fossils. How do you expain that?
Best regards, Julian.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
Vestigial limbs can easily be explained by evolution. An animal species with limbs finds that the environment has changed in such a way that the niche it is occupying is such that legs are not an advantage anymore. Thus it evolves into a species without limbs. However these lizards still have the vestigial remains on these legs inside their bodies.
Now whether you believe in evolution or not you must admit that this story explains the facts here. Other things like the birds 'teeth', our appendix etc can be explained in the same way. One up to evolution then.
How does Creationism fare here? Rather poorly. God for some reason just made these lizards with some totally useless bones which look like the remains of legs. It is hard to think why he would do that. [Unless it is to try our faith!]
What do you think?
Laurie
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
>Why do birds have the remnants of teeth when they are in the egg but which do not develop?<
Depends on what you are calling 'teeth'.
>Why are there some lizards which do not have legs but have inside there bodies vestigial leg bones?<
Why do we have an appendix? It is useless, but there. It is a good question, but there are those who will tell you that the whale would not be able to have walked on legs(can't remember where i read that now) yet 'appears' to have the same situation of vestigial hips (I think)
>Evolution explains this with ease but Creationism? I wait with interest.<
Nooooo, evolution does NOT explain this with ease at all, that is a very over confident statement.
How does a creationist explain it? They were made that way. How can I say that? Because you will NEVER find a fossil that is in the transitional stages, showing the legs starting to disappear, etc.
Hope this helps, Julian.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
Why do birds have the remnants of teeth when they are in the egg but which do not develop?
Why are there some lizards which do not have legs but have inside there bodies vestigial leg bones?
Evolution explains this with ease but Creationism? I wait with interest.
Laurie
Email: mgt.harris@btinternet.com
Julian.
You said: Yes, I do believe they were created for the very purpose of giving those who want to challenge Him, just enough to delude themselves. This I cannot prove, but it the way I see it indeed.(Now I will get a lot of questions....LOL)
No, not questions just an agreement!
1Cr 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, "He has taken the wise in their craftiness."
Shabbot Shalom!
seeker
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Replying to:
You have said the one thing that I personally reckon. Yes, I do believe they were created for the very purpose of giving those who want to challenge Him, just enough to delude themselves. This I cannot prove, but it the way I see it indeed.(Now I will get a lot of questions....LOL)
You missed my point, there are NO fossils showing these changes, so the 'vestgial limbs' are there in all the fossils. How do you expain that?
Best regards, Julian.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
Vestigial limbs can easily be explained by evolution. An animal species with limbs finds that the environment has changed in such a way that the niche it is occupying is such that legs are not an advantage anymore. Thus it evolves into a species without limbs. However these lizards still have the vestigial remains on these legs inside their bodies.
Now whether you believe in evolution or not you must admit that this story explains the facts here. Other things like the birds 'teeth', our appendix etc can be explained in the same way. One up to evolution then.
How does Creationism fare here? Rather poorly. God for some reason just made these lizards with some totally useless bones which look like the remains of legs. It is hard to think why he would do that. [Unless it is to try our faith!]
What do you think?
Laurie
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
>Why do birds have the remnants of teeth when they are in the egg but which do not develop?<
Depends on what you are calling 'teeth'.
>Why are there some lizards which do not have legs but have inside there bodies vestigial leg bones?<
Why do we have an appendix? It is useless, but there. It is a good question, but there are those who will tell you that the whale would not be able to have walked on legs(can't remember where i read that now) yet 'appears' to have the same situation of vestigial hips (I think)
>Evolution explains this with ease but Creationism? I wait with interest.<
Nooooo, evolution does NOT explain this with ease at all, that is a very over confident statement.
How does a creationist explain it? They were made that way. How can I say that? Because you will NEVER find a fossil that is in the transitional stages, showing the legs starting to disappear, etc.
Hope this helps, Julian.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
Why do birds have the remnants of teeth when they are in the egg but which do not develop?
Why are there some lizards which do not have legs but have inside there bodies vestigial leg bones?
Evolution explains this with ease but Creationism? I wait with interest.
Laurie
Email: leroy4@bellsouth.net
Thanks seeker, I can find no other explanation, but as you point out there is evidence that God does do this. Also look at this:1Kings 22v23. Though often misunderstood, this is exactly the principle we are talking about.
Love in Jesus, Shalom, Julian.
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Replying to:
Julian.
You said: Yes, I do believe they were created for the very purpose of giving those who want to challenge Him, just enough to delude themselves. This I cannot prove, but it the way I see it indeed.(Now I will get a lot of questions....LOL)
No, not questions just an agreement!
1Cr 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, "He has taken the wise in their craftiness."
Shabbot Shalom!
seeker
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
You have said the one thing that I personally reckon. Yes, I do believe they were created for the very purpose of giving those who want to challenge Him, just enough to delude themselves. This I cannot prove, but it the way I see it indeed.(Now I will get a lot of questions....LOL)
You missed my point, there are NO fossils showing these changes, so the 'vestgial limbs' are there in all the fossils. How do you expain that?
Best regards, Julian.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
Vestigial limbs can easily be explained by evolution. An animal species with limbs finds that the environment has changed in such a way that the niche it is occupying is such that legs are not an advantage anymore. Thus it evolves into a species without limbs. However these lizards still have the vestigial remains on these legs inside their bodies.
Now whether you believe in evolution or not you must admit that this story explains the facts here. Other things like the birds 'teeth', our appendix etc can be explained in the same way. One up to evolution then.
How does Creationism fare here? Rather poorly. God for some reason just made these lizards with some totally useless bones which look like the remains of legs. It is hard to think why he would do that. [Unless it is to try our faith!]
What do you think?
Laurie
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
>Why do birds have the remnants of teeth when they are in the egg but which do not develop?<
Depends on what you are calling 'teeth'.
>Why are there some lizards which do not have legs but have inside there bodies vestigial leg bones?<
Why do we have an appendix? It is useless, but there. It is a good question, but there are those who will tell you that the whale would not be able to have walked on legs(can't remember where i read that now) yet 'appears' to have the same situation of vestigial hips (I think)
>Evolution explains this with ease but Creationism? I wait with interest.<
Nooooo, evolution does NOT explain this with ease at all, that is a very over confident statement.
How does a creationist explain it? They were made that way. How can I say that? Because you will NEVER find a fossil that is in the transitional stages, showing the legs starting to disappear, etc.
Hope this helps, Julian.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Replying to:
Why do birds have the remnants of teeth when they are in the egg but which do not develop?
Why are there some lizards which do not have legs but have inside there bodies vestigial leg bones?
Evolution explains this with ease but Creationism? I wait with interest.
Laurie
Email: kingdomsearcher@msn.com