WELCOME! A place where iron can sharpen iron, where spiritual milk and strong meat may be shared and received by all, where scripture can be expounded, where truth and love may be seen by the world.
To post: email firstname.lastname@example.org from your email address and ask for the password. It will be changed from time-to-time as need arises. Thank you for posting here. God bless.
IF God does condemn two people who are committed to each other. Who love each other. You like each other. Whose love benefits themselves and society. Whose relationship is in every way like a married couple.
IF God condemned such relationship simply because they were of the same sex then he would be arbitrary, capricious, unpleasant and unfair. However He is good, in fact his nature is love.
Thus he would not condemn sex between faithful gay couples whatever you choose to call what they do.
Of course God supports loving and faithful relationships, even between those of like gender. Jesus loved his disciples, they even washed each other's feet. God supports loving and faithful relationships within families. Does that mean family members should be able to have sex with each other. Is it unfair that God does not allow for this? Some people think so.
God made the male reproductive organs to go with female reproductive organs. He made it so that sperm could mix with an egg and make a child. Sperm can't mix with feces and make a child. Vaginal fluid can not mix with plastic objects and produce a child. The rectum can not support a fetus. So why would God be pleased with gay sex. It is not done to create anything pleasing for God, it's just to fulfill perverted desires.
There is only one type of fornication, sex without marriage. God only recognizes marriage between man and woman. With these two truths in mind we can deduce that God condemns sex between an unmarried man and woman, any woman and woman, and any man and man.
People always try to fit God into their own beliefs. If they believe that something is okay, then God must think so too. They forget that God left a plethora of scriptures and his Holy Spirit, to guide us to think like him. It isn't the other way around. If it was, then we would have no need for God or his doctrines. For most people it is common sense to do good, so you can get a reward, we don't need God to help us see that. Serving God is simple, but much deeper than most people think. This may seem foolish, because the scripture does say that God's ways are foolish to the world. Jesus said that narrow is the path and few will make it in; broad is the path of destruction and many will go that way.
I think that the government should allow gays to marry and have similar rights to traditional married couples, because church and state separated a long time ago. No need for the gov't to act like it still cares.
The purpose of sex is not just to have children. It is was it would be wrong to have sex paet the menopause or use contraceptives.
Sex is also to express mutual love.
If it is OK, and it is, for straight people to have sex to show their love - why is it wrong for gays?
The answer is that there is no moral reason to ban it and a good God would not.
All the best
I apologize for making my responses so long, I hope that you can take the time to read through it all.
Some gay couples say, "You know, if God doesn't think that what we're doing is right, then he can't be good." Are these bad people? You would probably say no. So why would you say that God is bad, for feeling the same way about those who don't think that what he does is right?.
God showed amazing intelligence in the way that he orchestrated the sexual experience to create a baby. When a woman is sexually excited, her reproductive system prepares itself to receive sperm. When a man becomes erect and achieves orgasm, it gives the sperm a quick and uninterrupted path to the females womb. That's how God made us. He realizes that the result of this is that people will want to experience this pleasure often. That's why it is written that if a man can not control his desires toward a woman, let them marry. But even in marriage we must practice self control. When we are fasting and praying we are not supposed to have sex with our spouses, and we are never to commit adultery. Of course, this doesn't work for those who walk according to the flesh, just people who are walking according to the spirit. People who walk after the flesh, don't practice self control, it's not important to them. They find it very difficult to not have sex with the people they are sexually attracted to or in love with.
You are correct in saying that the purpose of sex is not just to have children. There are other purposes for US, but not for GOD. God does not express his love for us through sex. God isn't having an orgasm when we are or enjoying ecstasy. However when we have a child, God is also, for we are all his children. Also, contraceptives are made for us, to make having pre-marital sex and adultery more convenient for US, not more pleasing to GOD.
I don't know how old you are, but your statement that sex is an expression of mutual love seems childish and naive. (That's not meant to be an insult to you.) Please don't confuse sex with love. I know that many people may not agree, but I don't believe that sex is an expression of love. I used to think so. That type of thinking is one of the reason's why we have so many young girls having pre-marital sex and getting pregnant or spreading diseases. Many of them think, I love this boy so I am going to do this for him or he must love me if he's doing this with me. If sex is an expression of something, then it is just an expression of mutual, or sometimes one-sided, passion. This can be passion to please or passion to experience pleasure, but it's not about love. We should be teaching people about real expressions of love. Maybe we can help stop rapists who try to replace the love they didn't get from women over their life time. Maybe we can help victims of child abuse who will never tell because they've been told it's an expression of love. Maybe we can stop teen girls from giving up their virginity before marriage, because they love a boy. Maybe we can stop making post-menopausal women feel like they can't love their husbands because they aren't pleasured by sex as much as before.
Anyway, I sound like an idealist.
I am an old man by the way!
Sex is all sorts of things as practised by human beings. Recreation, lust etc depends on the person and the situation.
One thing it can be is, an expression of love. That does not make it right. Outside of marriage even if there is love a Christian would say that it is wrong. They argue that it is only OK as an expression of love within a committed lifetime faithful relationship, namely marriage.
Within marriage it is one of God's greatest gifts. To think otherwise is to take the old view that all sex is somehow 'nasty' and, even within marriage a regretable necessity. It is this false and non-Christian view that has led some thinkers to advocate celibacy for those who can manage it.
I can see now why my arguments re gay sex between loving partners is difficult for you - you have problems with any sex at all really!
If you see sex as part of the wonders of God's world within a marriage you would realise that there is no way God would deny this to gay partners.
All the best
I didn't mean to come across as someone who has something against sex. I am part flesh and my flesh enjoys sexual pleasure, but my flesh does not desire to serve God. My spirit does. (Romans 7:14-25) There is nothing wrong with practicing celibacy. There is nothing wrong with denying the flesh until marriage. There is nothing wrong with spending the majority of your time strenthening your spirit and concentrating on becoming a holy person who serves God. God instructs us to do so.
I don't have a problem believing in God who teaches that spiritual happiness/holiness is better than sexual happiness. Why is a god, who wants you to strengthen the part of you that communicates with him, so wrong. People act like if they wait til marriage they aren't going to have time to make up for the years they didn't have sex. Instead they should be thinking I have spent my life till now totally dedicated to God, now I get to also serve my spouse. (1 Corinthians 32-35)
I don't agree with those who say sex is nasty or a regrettable neccessity. God doesn't want us to feel this way and he doesn't say we should feel this way in his Word. His word instructs married couples "Do not deprive one another.. so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self control" (1 Corinthians 7:5)
Sex is not an expression of love, it is of passion and desire, even between a loving and faithful husband and wife. God knows this, that's how he made it. The Bible talks about controling your passion and desire, not your love. It doesn't say "better to marry than to burn with love" It says passion. You disagree as if passion is a bad thing, as if its not a apart of God's plan for a husband and wife to be able to express passion for each other.
Much of what you have said is true and fine. But you contradict yourself often. It's like you have forgotten what you've said mid sentence. You say "Within a marriage" and then "gay partners". To God these are not the same thing. You say "God's greatest gift", naming the creator of this gift and then you mention "gay sex" (ie, penis to anus, ***** to vagina, etc) which is the artifact of man's imaginations. To God these are not the same thing. Might I add that pre-maritalsex, HIV, and STD's, etc are also products of man's actions against God. If people had done things right, the way my Father wills, none of these horrible things would exist.
People act like God is dumb. He is our great protector. He has given us instruction to protect us from ****ation. When he instructed people not to do sexually immoral/perverted things, this was to prevent spread of diseases and confusion. But people wanted to be smarter than God, it's okay to do this, no one will get hurt, what's the big deal. Now look at us. We could easily stop the madness, by following God's advice, but NO! we have to try to out smart God and figure out a way around his Word.
"People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, arrogant, abusive, diobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, brutes, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lover of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to the outward form of godliness but denying its power... these people, of corrupt(reprobate) mind and counterfeit faith, also oppose the truth. But they will not make much progress, because .. their folly will become plain to everyone...they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own desires and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander away to myths." (2 Timothy 3:2-9;4:3-4) Are you satisfied being a slave to a system for the dead?
If your argument is that scripture is wrong and is mistaken in the way it depicts God, remember, the scripture is the only source I use to understand him.