Christ has never nor does now condone sin.

Christ DID NOT break the sabbath day. If He did He would be a sinner as you and I and would not be worthy to be a Saviour as He would have need of a Saviour Himself. The pharisees ACCUSED Him of such but only because they ADDED to the word of God and made rules around the sabbath which caused men to stumble.

You said" we would not plant mixed crops in the same field, we would not approve sex during a woman's period, we would marry our brother's wife if he died [even if we were married already!] etc. And we would agree the death penalty for adultery and many other offences."
What makes you think ANY of these laws are rescinded? The subject of marrying a brother's wife was only to raise seed (children) to carry on his namesake. If he already had children no one had to marry his widow. The death penalty is delayed by mercy but stands unless one repents.

Your blasphemous notion that Jesus 'approved of gays or gay unions' is only in your head. You had better start having a fear of God as that is the beginning of wisdom. I say this for your sake and for your salvation.

Email: TruthOnWeb@aol.com

Jesus' disciples took corn from a field and ate it. This was technically reaping and this is work and is forbidden on the Sabbath. This was the Pharisees accusation.

Notice that Jesus did not deny what they said. He said that we have to regard the spirit of the law not its letter. So he [or rather his disciples] did break the letter of the law.

The story though highlights an important point. What a Christian must do is look to see WHY God's laws are as they are. They must not be applied blindly and legalistically. In every case we must remember that God is Love and other people our brothers and sisters and we must always realise the Love is the most important thing in the Universe. It is obvious that the fine love that many gay couples have for each other - as good as any straight couple, would be acceptable to God. Your God Ken is too small and in this you act like those old Pharisees!

As to the rest 'you cannot be serious!' Do you think that if your brother died childless that you ought to marry his widow? That it would be wrong to do otherwise? That you should even do this if you have a wife already?! And do you seriously tell me that a farmer who planted two different crops in the same large field is a sinner? I am amazed! Your position would be consistent if you thought that every command in the OT still stood but I might form the impression that I was talking with a rather unusual person to say the least of it.

Best wishes

Laurie

PS I look forward to your new website headed 'THE SINS OF MIXED PLANTING - ONLY ONE TYPE OF SEED PER FIELD OR HELL BECKONS!'

Email: mgt.harris@btinternet.com

Jesus DID NOT ... I repeat DID NOT break the sabbath day. Show me in the bible where grabbing a handful of grain and munching it is considered reaping and threshing? That was an edict ADDED to God's Word by the Pharisees.

JESUS SAID: Matthew 5:17-28 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, [HAVE HEAVEN AND EARTH PASSED?] one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [UNTIL THE PASSING OF HEAVEN ND EARTH NONE OF GODS LAWS SHALL PASS!] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

If you read on in the same passage you see Jesus explain Himself. Not only do you live the letter of the law but the spirit (magnified intent)of the law. [Law does NOT save us but only grace but law teaches us how to live]

Jesus says 'don't kill' (it was Jesus pre-incarnate' who said that in the OT ya know) and then magnifies that to not only do no murder but even if you are ANGRY with your brother you trespass the SPIRITUAL INTENT of this law. Matt 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Notice Jesus used adultery and lust as similar examples. Does keeping the spirit of the law (do not lust) 'do away' with the letter (its now okay to commit adultery? MAY IT NEVER BE CONCEIVED!)

God is Love indeed ... but you do not know God neither His love!
1 John 5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

You ARE talking to an unusual person.

Exodus 19:5-6 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Deuteronomy 14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

Deuteronomy 26:18-19 And the LORD hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people, as he hath promised thee, and that thou shouldest keep all his commandments; And to make thee high above all nations which he hath made, in praise, and in name, and in honour; and that thou mayest be an holy people unto the LORD thy God, as he hath spoken.

Psalms 135:4 For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.

Titus 2:13-15 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Email: TruthOnWeb@aol.com

Picking corn heads and removing the husks is reaping and winnowing. Reaping in my dictionary is 'cutting a crop' and this is what they were doing - cutting the heads off the corn. So, techinically they were working. If they were not Jesus' reply to the Pharisees would have been, "Sorry chums but what my disciples were doing is not work because..." He did not take this line. Why? It could only be because he agreed with the Pharisees that it was work - technically. [Of course Jesus did not break the Sabbath here but his disciples did]

So what did Jesus reply. He said that is was the spirit of the law, the reasons behind it that were important and that to apply it blindly was stupid and sinful. If I am wrong here please show me where.

Best wishes

Laurie

Email: mgt.harris@btinternet.com

Yes, you are indeed wrong.

Notice that Jesus says these disciples were GUILTLESS - not guilty.

Matthew 12:7-8 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

The scene actually shows the sinlessness of Jesus in strong light. The Pharisees were desperately seeking to discredit Him so even the slightest act of He and His disciples was submitted to a microscopic scrutiny.

Luke 19:47-48 And he taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy him, And could not find what they might do: for all the people were very attentive to hear him.

The Religious Right of Jesus' Day tried to slander and falsely accuse Him because they were afraid they would lose their position of power between the people and the Roman Rule. See John 11:47-48 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles. If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.

To understand the position of the Pharisees, it must be noticed that the Law said that people were "to do no manner of work" on the Sabbath, but the added "Tradition of the Elders" had laid down thirty-nine principal prohibitions, which were ascribed to the authority of the Great Synagogue[Sanhedren], and which were called abhoth, "fathers," or chief rules. From these were deduced a vast multitude of toldoth, "descendants," or derivative rules. Now, "reaping" and "threshing" on the Sabbath day were forbidden by abhoth; and by the toldoth it was asserted that plucking corn-ears was a kind of reaping, and rubbing them a kind of threshing. The vitality of these artificial notions among the Jews is extraordinary.

Jesus was without sin (transgression of God's law)and that is why He was qualified to be our Savior.

BEND YOUR KNEE TO HIM. CONFESS YOUR SIN - YOUR UNBELIEF - AND HE WILL FORGIVE YOU AND HEAL YOU.

Email: TruthOnWeb@aol.com

Well I am still not convinced but we better call a halt to this point here.

However the main point of this thread which is that Jesus nowhere condemns faithful gay sex explicitly and the Gospel he taught implicitly approves it, remains untouched.

Best wishes

Laurie

Email: mgt.harris@btinternet.com

Who are you to think YOU -A non-believer - can decide what the book that YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN says?

Gay sex, gay thoughts, gay defense - is all SIN.

If you don't like it I think you should take your appeal straight to God rather than middle men. Are you afraid He might answer you?

Email: TruthOnWeb@aol.com

Even if I do not believe every word of the Bible I can still point out to people who do that their interpretation of it is flawed.

As to taking my problem to God, if such a being exists then I am more than happy that he contacts me about it. And this last point is not meant to be flippant.

Best wishes

Laurie

Email: mgt.harris@btinternet.com

Sex outside of marriage is fornication and that is a sin.

In Mark 10:6-9 Jesus says "God made them male and female, for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate." Jesus is not only talking about divorce, he is also talking about marriage. He defines it as between a male and female, not a male and male or female and female. God put it together that way.

Like I said before, sex outside of marriage is fornication, which is a sin. If Jesus believes God made marriage to be between a male and a female, then any gay people claiming to be married and having sex are actually fornicating and therefore living in sin.

Or we could just assume that Jesus means that male and female marriages should not end in divorce, but gays can get married and divorced or whatever they want, because none of what Jesus says applies to gay people and they have just been left in the dark about how to live their "gay" lives and need to just make it up as they go along. And that goes double for transgendered folk. (MMMM, that's something to think about, cause it just might be true.)

This response probably is not "explicit" enough for you, but with a little righteous thinking maybe it can help you figure out an answer to your question.

Keisha

P.S. You are right about the divorce thing.

Here are two gay people. They have lived and loved in a faithful life-long partnership - just like a married couple. Indeed they would marry if they could.

WHY would God condemn this?

[Do not reply, "Because God does not like fornication" as I would then ask , "WHY does God not like this type of fornication'. After all, unlike other types of fornication, - if you want to call what they do by this name - what they do is beneficial to themselves and society and does no harm.

What is God' reason do you think?

Best wishes

Laurie

Email: mgt.harris@btinternet.com

Of course God supports loving and faithful relationships, even between those of like gender. Jesus loved his disciples, they even washed each other's feet. God supports loving and faithful relationships within families. Does that mean family members should be able to have sex with each other. Is it unfair that God does not allow for this? Some people think so.

God made the male reproductive organs to go with female reproductive organs. He made it so that sperm could mix with an egg and make a child. Sperm can't mix with feces and make a child. Vaginal fluid can not mix with plastic objects and produce a child. The rectum can not support a fetus. So why would God be pleased with gay sex. It is not done to create anything pleasing for God, it's just to fulfill perverted desires of those with reprobate minds.

There is only one type of fornication, sex without marriage. God only recognizes marriage between man and woman. With these two truths in mind we can deduce that God condemns sex between an unmarried man and woman, any woman and woman, and any man and man.

People always try to fit God into their own beliefs. If they believe that something is okay, then God must think so too. They forget that God left a plethora of scriptures and his Holy Spirit, to guide us to think like him. It isn't the other way around. If it was, then we would have no need for God or his doctrines. For most people it is common sense to do good, so you can get a reward, we don't need God to help us see that. Serving God is simple, but much deeper than most people think. This may seem foolish, because the scripture does say that God's ways are foolish to the world. Jesus said that narrow is the path and few will make it in; broad is the path of destruction and many will go that way.

I think that the government should allow gays to marry and have similar rights to traditional married couples, because church and state separated a long time ago. No need for the gov't to act like it still cares.