Being a Jew, you of all people should be familiar with OT Prophecy. Since you feel that the Messiah comes at the end of time, I would like to see that in the OT. Would you care to show me that from the Scriptures please?

In the meantime, although I have an extremely busy schedule, I will prepare a study on the coming of Jesus 2000 years ago...have patience, I moderate a couple of forums, run two businesses (one of which I just started up and is keeping me really busy getting it going) and I also have a 6 month old and she really requires a lot of time, so as you can see, I am spread thin.

A little preview, try reading the 70 week prophecy in Daniel. If anyone else already has this info typed out, feel free to save me the time of typing on my end. It will be few days at the earliest before I can get to this.


Mr. Gregory

>> Mr. Gregory
Date Posted: Jan 9, 04 - 9:10 PM
Message: Being a Jew, you of all people should be familiar with OT Prophecy. Since you feel that the Messiah comes at the end of time, I would like to see that in the OT. Would you care to show me that from the Scriptures please?

Bs'd

## Look in Genesis 49:

Genesis 49
1 And Jacob called his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, and I will tell you what will befall you at the end of days.
2 Assemble yourselves, and hear, ye sons of Jacob, And listen to Israel your father.
3 Reuben, thou art my firstborn, My might, and the firstfruits of my vigour: Excellency of dignity, and excellency of strength.
4 Impetuous as the waters, thou shalt have no pre-eminence; Because thou wentest up to thy father's couch: Then defiledst thou [it]: he went up to my bed.
5 Simeon and Levi are brethren: Instruments of violence their swords.
6 My soul, come not into their council; Mine honour, be not united with their assembly; For in their anger they slew men, And in their wantonness houghed oxen.
7 Cursed be their anger, for it [was] violent; And their rage, for it [was] cruel! I will divide them in Jacob, And scatter them in Israel.
8 Judah -- [as to] thee, thy brethren will praise thee; Thy hand will be upon the neck of thine enemies; Thy father's children will bow down to thee.
9 Judah is a young lion; From the prey, my son, thou art gone up. He stoopeth, he layeth himself down as a lion, And as a lioness: who will rouse him up?
10 The scepter will not depart from Judah, Nor the lawgiver from between his feet, Until Shiloh come, And to him will be the obedience of peoples."

"Shilo" is THE messiah, and as you can see in verse 1, he will come in THE END OF DAYS.

THis is the Darby translation, also Young's Literal Translation says "end of days".
Many say different, but that is because this obviously does NOT fit Christian theology, therefore most translations are corrupted.

>> In the meantime, although I have an extremely busy schedule, I will prepare a study on the coming of Jesus 2000 years ago...have patience, I moderate a couple of forums, run two businesses (one of which I just started up and is keeping me really busy getting it going) and I also have a 6 month old and she really requires a lot of time, so as you can see, I am spread thin.

A little preview, try reading the 70 week prophecy in Daniel. If anyone else already has this info typed out, feel free to save me the time of typing on my end. It will be few days at the earliest before I can get to this.

## For Daniel 9, look here: www.geocities.com/Metzad/Daniel9.htm

Eliyahu

I see that you have the information I was going to post. I have not researched the Jewish position before, and you have given me a place of which to start.

I had asked you the same question almost 2 years ago if my memory is correct, and you gave me a lot of suppositions, this time, you gave me what I was looking for...I see you have since done your research.

I like to research why the different Churches/denominations believe as they do and have not gotten around to the Jewish position. I see that you put another link at the end of your article which is very long for reading purposes, and I will try to do so this week. If you have any other links or sites that you think will be of benefit, please post them.

For others reading this, do you have sites that address the Jewish position that has been posted. I am interested in researching both sides more thoroughly.

Regarding the many different areas of the Bible, such as the 70 weeks, every Church seems to have a different set of dates to follow for what begins where. It does make it hard to follow. Each of us tend to follow the beliefs of the Church we attend, and these things are of interest to me as to why so many different interpretations. I can see why many atheists have so many questions. It can be confusing, even for Christians.

Everybody talks about what they will ask God when the end comes, I guess the above paragraphs will be the one thing I will be interested in knowing concerning the reasons why. Hope that didn't confuse anyone!

Thanks again for the info.

Mr. Gregory

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

>> Mr. Gregory
Date Posted: Jan 9, 04 - 9:10 PM
Message: Being a Jew, you of all people should be familiar with OT Prophecy. Since you feel that the Messiah comes at the end of time, I would like to see that in the OT. Would you care to show me that from the Scriptures please?

Bs'd

## Look in Genesis 49:

Genesis 49
1 And Jacob called his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, and I will tell you what will befall you at the end of days.
2 Assemble yourselves, and hear, ye sons of Jacob, And listen to Israel your father.
3 Reuben, thou art my firstborn, My might, and the firstfruits of my vigour: Excellency of dignity, and excellency of strength.
4 Impetuous as the waters, thou shalt have no pre-eminence; Because thou wentest up to thy father's couch: Then defiledst thou [it]: he went up to my bed.
5 Simeon and Levi are brethren: Instruments of violence their swords.
6 My soul, come not into their council; Mine honour, be not united with their assembly; For in their anger they slew men, And in their wantonness houghed oxen.
7 Cursed be their anger, for it [was] violent; And their rage, for it [was] cruel! I will divide them in Jacob, And scatter them in Israel.
8 Judah -- [as to] thee, thy brethren will praise thee; Thy hand will be upon the neck of thine enemies; Thy father's children will bow down to thee.
9 Judah is a young lion; From the prey, my son, thou art gone up. He stoopeth, he layeth himself down as a lion, And as a lioness: who will rouse him up?
10 The scepter will not depart from Judah, Nor the lawgiver from between his feet, Until Shiloh come, And to him will be the obedience of peoples."

"Shilo" is THE messiah, and as you can see in verse 1, he will come in THE END OF DAYS.

THis is the Darby translation, also Young's Literal Translation says "end of days".
Many say different, but that is because this obviously does NOT fit Christian theology, therefore most translations are corrupted.

>> In the meantime, although I have an extremely busy schedule, I will prepare a study on the coming of Jesus 2000 years ago...have patience, I moderate a couple of forums, run two businesses (one of which I just started up and is keeping me really busy getting it going) and I also have a 6 month old and she really requires a lot of time, so as you can see, I am spread thin.

A little preview, try reading the 70 week prophecy in Daniel. If anyone else already has this info typed out, feel free to save me the time of typing on my end. It will be few days at the earliest before I can get to this.

## For Daniel 9, look here: www.geocities.com/Metzad/Daniel9.htm

Eliyahu

Dear Mr. Silver,

Go find your messiah then. There are dozens, if not hundreds to choose from. I hope you chose correctly.

Ron HArvey

Email: rsnm10@hotmail.com

Bs'd

And why do you think you choose correctly?

Because that is what everybody in your neighbourhood says?

Eliyahu.

Dear Mr. Silver,

I was not looking for Messiah. I was seeking the things of the earth that could please my flesh and my mind. I was seeking after my own when one glorious day, the Lord Yeshua revealed himself to me. He chose me. I did not choose him. It was not my "decision for Christ" that brought me to him. I fought against it, but thank God he won.

I rejected and ran from Lord God Most High all my life. I sought out every other god but him. I ridiculed those that did believe and I mocked the word of God. I did everything I could to distance myself from him, yet his desire for me would not be spurned forever.

Everybody in my neighborhood is catholic and they worship Mary and their saints all the day. I do not follow after them. I have been to many "protestant" churches. Few services could I even bear to sit through in their entirety before I would get up and leave or actually be asked to leave. Everyone in my neighborhood who names the name of Jesus goes about thier lives in sin and evil. I hate every evil work and I deplore my own sin. Everyone in my neighborhood thinks that the return of the Messiah is far off or they believe that they will be snatched away for lunch with the Lord in the clouds. I am preparing for the great trial of my faith and for the return of Yeshua in a very short time.

I hope that this answers your questions.

Ron Harvey

Email: rsnm10@hotmail.com

>> Dear Mr. Silver,

I was not looking for Messiah. I was seeking the things of the earth that could please my flesh and my mind. I was seeking after my own when one glorious day, the Lord Yeshua revealed himself to me. He chose me. I did not choose him. It was not my "decision for Christ" that brought me to him. I fought against it, but thank God he won.

## Bs'd

What you are saying here is: Me choosing for JC was a matter of emotions, and not common sense.

Eliyahu

Dear Mr. Silver,

I was responding to your questions.

You asked "And why do you think you choose correctly?
Because that is what everybody in your neighbourhood says?"

My coming to Christ was not for emotions. I was called. It was put in my spirit to respond.

ron

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

>> Dear Mr. Silver,

I was not looking for Messiah. I was seeking the things of the earth that could please my flesh and my mind. I was seeking after my own when one glorious day, the Lord Yeshua revealed himself to me. He chose me. I did not choose him. It was not my "decision for Christ" that brought me to him. I fought against it, but thank God he won.

## Bs'd

What you are saying here is: Me choosing for JC was a matter of emotions, and not common sense.

Eliyahu

Email: rsnm10@hotmail.com

Bs'd

You can hardly call that a rational approach.

Eliyahu

Dear Eliyahu, This is the first time I have ever used this form of comunnication to discuss the Word of YHWH or Y'shua ha Mashiach. Forgive my poor spelling and grammer,as I perceive that YHWH would be merciful to me a sinner and be patient with me as I improve. I felt inspired of the Lord to express to you what we both agree apon that is true about your Father Abraham. But, in doing so hope that I can help you see what YHWH helped Abraham to see and throughout time even to this day me also something that is the center of true Christianity, not the so called Christian religion. First in reading much of the discussion I wish to agree with you that you are correct in that the Messiah is to come and will come according to your understanding at the end days. It will be His triumphant entry to defeat his enimies. Why any one who communicated with you avoided that I don't know. But we both know that is the ending not the beginnig. I want to say that I love you now and pray the Lord lets you hear what the Spirit is saying as He said it to your Father Abraham. You see I am thankful for you because without the Hebrew race, I like Rahab and Ruth and others could have no hope. But thanks to Abraham there is hope. Even I, the dog that I am can be fed by the crumbs of the Masters table. There is much to be said and would that you bare with me in it. For Abraham is the Father of the Promised Seed. It is YHWH that called Abraham even as He called Noah. I would suppose that you agree that the Spirit of YHWH spoke to them in a difficult place and time. He gave them a difficult message and journey. To think that YHWH would call a man out and separate him from others. This you surely agree that He did to your Father Abraham. But why? Was it a myth, a fable, a parable. I think not. For, He called a man to live and breath a practical, physical, real relationship with Him. But would he love YHWH as He was created to. We know now the answer is yes. How do we know this. By the testing of his faith and works. YHWH will not call any one to any faith other than that faith that he called Abraham to. There is only one YHWH and one Faith. There can not be many Faiths to YHWH. This is the test that YHWH gave Abraham. He gave him a promise of a Seed and Commanded Abraham to sacrifice his own legitamate first begotten son Isaac. Do you have a son? Will you obey the Lord and sacrifice that promised son? Is it only the obedience that YHWH is interested in? You know it isn't. How well do you Love the Lord? I have an only son. It grieves me to think about the idea of parting with him. How much more to actually sacrifice him to YHWH who asks me to excute my only son. Could not this YHWH raise him up again since He said to me that this was the promised son? Think! Humble yourself as Abraham did and trust Him. Is not this example of the Father of the Hebrew race AND the Father of the true faith in YHWH. Is not this a Personal relationship with the living YAH! But we both know that YHWH stopped him at the last moment. With great love I plead for you to read the 22 chapter of Genesis or your equivalent. It is written "And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son, And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the Lamb for a burnt offering? And Abraham said, My son, YHWH will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering:....And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. And He said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest YHWH, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behod behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son." You have been patient if you have read thus far. Leave me not now. For I bare the weight of YHWH's love for you and mine. Is it a strange thing for YHWH to call and test a man in his concsience? Was YHWH confused when He commanded your Father Abraham to sacrivice his son and then stop him from it? Did He change His mind? I think not. It never was the Lord's will that Abraham complete such a deed. Is YHWH blood thirsty? We both know not. I beleave it is evident in that scripture that; YHWH wanted to teach Abraham and all after him as the Father of both the Hebrew race and the Father of the only true Faith that the Greatest Love that can be expressed is that Someone would love another so much that he is willing to shed the blood of His Only Son as an expression of love toward another. YHWH was showing Abraham how much He loved Abraham. You know clearly that throughout the entire Scripture there is a shedding of blood. YHWH would not permit Abraham to sacrifice his son. According to Isaiah ch. 52 v.13 onward thru 53 and onward thru 54 YHWH makes it clear to you that there is a need for a sacrifice for all humanity including the Hebrew race Whom He called to bring forth the Promised Seed and Eternal Hope. And He will be the victor over all his enimies. And, He will not forget His people. But by His Grace has let such as I know the Faith of Abraham. It is YHWH that would provide Himself a Lamb. All sins have been paid for for all time, perminently. Yet, a covenant must be made as Abraham made: a covenant of faith. A covenat between you and YHWH. In that trust that YHWH would provide Himself a sacrifice for you as He promised. Is not He Omnipresent, Omnipotent, and Omniscient. Shall He not come to redeam us from our sins and conquer sin and death in the flesh and then defeat all enimies including the deceiver himself. Is He not YHWH! Shall Man limit YHWH. I think not. Abraham's covenant is True Cristianity seen in the Old Testament expressed as the New Covenant of the New Testament. Again I thank YHWH for you. If it were not for you. I would not have the Ten Commandments nor Y'shua ha Mashiach. Killing an animal will not perminantly deliver me from my sins. Nor has it the power to defeat the deceiver. Nor can it give me eternal life. I hope you have humbly considered this pouring out of my soul. I do not know that the Lord would have me respond to your repoly if you so choose to. But if the Lord so will for the completion of your salvation and He helps you see Him more clearly, please ask me for councel. I would be happy to assist you. Look not on just the letter of the Law, but also the purpose of it and the Grace of YHWH that is in it and part of it. May YHWH Bless Jerusalem. Yours in Y'shua ha Mashiach

Email: meandmychildren@mail.com

"10 The scepter will not depart from Judah, Nor the lawgiver from between his feet, Until Shiloh come, And to him will be the obedience of peoples."

But Christians believe Shiloh, the Lawgiver and the sceptre did come in the person of Christ.
Judah hasn't had a sceptre or a Lawgiver in over 2000 years now.
We believe Shiloh HAS come, and will come again.

Email: Besq@ispwest.com