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| Viewing Page 1 of 1 (Total Posts: 16) |
| Author | Comment |
Shirkie
 Sep 5, 05 - 9:05 PM |
Elements
Worked on the site for about 2 hours tonight. I intended to do the Prophecy 23 page, but got distracted and spent the whole time updating my section on the Elements. www.ezrasmall.com/elements.htm Tell me what you think! And expect a Prophecy 23 page soon. I'm making progress here, at least. :) PS-- Did I mention my copy of Issue #10 (S:ToM) is partially covered with a rotten banana? My mom thought she was being helpful when she put the banana in my backpack to take to work, but she didn't tell me it was there, and it stayed there for a couple weeks next to the magazine before I found it... Peeeee-yeeeeew! |
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Eh,Man?You-El?
Sep 6th, 2005 - 2:11 PM |
Re: Elements
Dear Shirkie, I had a few comments on your "Elements" article. Altogether, it was OK but seemed rushed. 1. "the gates to a vast treasury of knowledge that would put the legendary Library of Alexandria to shame" was a quote by Lex from "Crusade" Act 3 Scene 2. 2. "The Fire Element was inside a statue of Ra, the Egyptian sun god." First, don't believe anything from the Smallville Magazine #10 article on the Elements. You must be aware of the many errors in it. Yes, most Egyptian graphic and statuary representations of "Ra" had a falcon head, but ALWAYS in combination with a Sun-Disk. There are a few Roman-Egyptian statues of Ra which have human features without a Sun-Disk but no Falcon heads without Sun-Disks. The Egyptian statues, paintings and bas-relief images of a hawk-headed god wthout a Sun-Disk are typically identified as "Horus". (A hawk is a smaller bird than a Falcon and the features are distinguishable.) Note; The statue in "Crusade" had a Hawk head wearing a Pharonic headdress. This particular combination of elements appears to be either a "creative" anachronism or very uncommon. 3. I wish you had mentioned the odd scratches around the double-Tilde ~ ~ "Water" symbol. I think these will become significant in Season 5. It looks to me like the symbol that was originally on the Black water stone had been changed by some powerful force. I suspect we will discover that the opriginal symbol was simply the Kryptonian letter "W" and that the force that changed the stone was Zod. 3. 'The symbol for "water" first appeared during "Crusade." ' In general, your article would make more sense if you followed the chronology of the episodes more: A. Start by talking about Kryptonian Symbols in General. - Mention the Ship and the two different versions of "The Heart of the Ship" from "Pilot" and "Rosetta" B. Then describe the Symbols on the Octagonal Key first seen in "Obscura" but more clearly in "Tempest" C. Then describe the Symbols in the Kawatche Caves found by Clark in "SkinWalkers" when he fell through the top of the Caves. D. Decribe how the Symbols appeared in the meetings with Virgil Swann in "Rosetta" E. Mention the the Kryptonian symbols that flooded Dr Walden in "Calling" F. Mention the branding of Clark with the "the mark of (his) ancestors" in "Exodus" You could then describe the significance of the "Superman Shield" shape with the figure "8" inside as being the El Family Crest and how it appeared in each of the preceeding sources of the symbols. But then, in discussing the stones, it's probably best t start chronologically again, with the "Water Stone not the "Fire" stone. The double-Tilde symbol first appeared in "SkinWalkers" found by Clark when he fell through the top of the Kawatche Caves. The stone with the same symbol was first identified as symbolizing "Water" in "Transference". (Then discuss how Edgar talked about the other stones). Etc. Then talk about the "Fire" stone which first appeared in "Crusade" Then talk about the "Air" stone which first appeared in "Sacred" 4. "Lana learned in "Facade" that the symbol was actually branded onto her back. " The significance of "what Lana found out" would be stonger in your "Elements" page if you change your sentence to corrspond more closeing to the quote from the episode: "In "Facade" Lana learned that the symbol was branded underneath her skin without ink in some mysterious fashion." "Dr. Fine: You're not the first person to walk through that door with tattoo remorse. But you're the first one to do it without ink. Dr. Fine puts the skin sample in a dish and walks to the counter. Confused, Lana sits up. Lana: What? Dr. Fine: Whatever this pigment is, it's almost as though the symbol were branded underneath your skin. Someone wanted to leave a mark you wouldn't easily forget. Facade, Act 2 Scene 5 " 5. A mannequin with kryptonite eyes and a magical t-shirt! The "t-shirt" costume was hanging on a bar not a mannequin. The shirt had a map on it but had no significant "magical" effects. The mask had kryptonite eyes which did weaken Clark. BTW, The mask was actually a Balinese "Barong" mask, not Chinese at all. As to the whole non-exploded kryptonite radiation issue, you know my theories. |
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Shirkie
Sep 10th, 2005 - 8:47 AM |
Re: Elements
OK, so based on Eh?s notes, the article sucked and must be revamped. ;) I see what you're saying about some of the criticisms, and I'll definitely try to work them into the next update. I am, however, going to stick with the order of Fire-Water-Air as that's chronologically when the STONES themselves were introduced. The symbols are a trickier matter. I'll have to work on this a bit, but I DEFINITELY appreciate all the input!!! |
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Ritch
Sep 10th, 2005 - 2:38 PM |
Re: Elements
I think you did a better job than SV Magazine! Read theirs and you'll find mistakes. And that's the Official Magazine. Guess this was a hard subject to tackle. Eh?, I see your point about the water symbol, but I've not given too much to changes in props because they've done that with bunches of things. The brain of the ship changed. As Shirkie stated, the map/drawing changed. And it wouldn't be the first 'goof-up' they've done in the series. 'Ritch' |
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Shirkie
Sep 11th, 2005 - 9:46 PM |
Re: Elements
I guess the biggest thing I'm frustrated about is how they knew to go to China. Maybe I just missed that in one of the episodes or something, but how in the world did they figure out to go to China from that map? And can you repost that kryptonite theory of yours again (how it got in the vault)? I really just don't get how or why there would be kryptonite in the vault. I just feel like a lot of that stone stuff was sloppily thrown together... And the symbols around the stones' holder in the caves don't spell out anything-- I looked at the symbols in the magazine. It also doesn't help that some of the alphabet letters are other letters turned upside down (look at H and M, for example), and the P symbol looks a lot like the Fire symbol and... Ayyyyy, my brain hurts. |
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Eh,Man?You-El?
Sep 12th, 2005 - 2:01 AM |
Re: Elements
Dear Shirkie, Below are my observations about a possible NON-radioactivity approach to Green Kryptonite effects. You're right that there really weren't any precursors on Smallville that anything important might be happening in China before "Sacred" (except Prophesy 2's litany of place names including "Shenshi" and Prophesy 4 - "quaidam"). In "Crusade" Lex didn't say anything about China: "Then perhaps I can refresh your memory. Three relics hidden around the world by scientifically advanced ancient cultures. Legend has it that when united, they point the way to a treasury of knowledge that puts the Library of Alexandria to shame." In "Transference" Edgar, Lionel's cell mate said: "These ancient symbols, they've been found in Egypt, Central America, even a sacred indian cave right here in Kansas." He didn't mention China. In the graphics on the cell wall, There is a map of the world where most of the threads leading from graphics scattered over the map were leading to Kansas, there were two threads leading to north africa the vicinity of Egypt. China was covered over by a graphic as was Utah. There was a Buddah figure on the wall (which could come from almost anywhere in Asia and in fact looked more Indian than Chinese) ------------------------- BTW: On the Season 4 DVD set, One of the unused scenes for "Sacred" is included. The scene shows Lex laying out the Red Chinese mystic robe on his desk back at Luthor Mansion. So, the original intention was that Lex took possession of the Robe at the end of the episode. (Note: The robe was not shown inside the vault in the episode "Commencement"). Lex touches each of the symbols on the map on the robe. The "Fire" symbol is in the string of symbols (The "P" in p-l-a-i-n-s) near the "horse" graphic. (Note, the Font for "P" is the diamond with a small circle on the right, and it is the "P" symbol that appears in Isobel's spellbook in "Spell" and other places as the proper orientation of the "Fire" symbol. The Kryptonian Font for "F" has the small circle on the left). The "Water" symbol is hidden in the center of the rocks/bushes below the Lightning Bolt symbol (You can just about see the symbol on the "original" map), The "Air" symbol is above and to the left of the "temple" (The "S" in the string r-u-i-n-s which appears immediately above the temple in the maps) I keep wondering about that Lightning bolt on the map. (an indication that Bart Allen is somehow tied to the stones?) |
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Eh,Man?You-El?
Sep 12th, 2005 - 2:02 AM |
Re: Elements
http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1210998#post1210998 There was a discussion of the Kryptonite in the Magical t-shirts: http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/s...519#post1149519 While I am sure nobody in the writer's room really worried too much about the continuity issues here, it's just this kind of discrepancy that can sometimes develop into intriging new perspectives on the DC Universe. Here's my little "S-T-R-E-T-C-H-To-Fit" explanation of how kryptonite "really works": While continuity about Kryptonite is not particularly thorough on "Smallville" I do have a hypothesis about why earthbound kryptonite could still be as deadly to Clark as "exploded Planet" kryptonite. Kryptonite effects don't seem to be radiation based - it causes pain to Clark but acts more like a "Genie" to humans - giving them powers when connected to them through some form of deep stress. I think Kryptonite actually has a psychic effect on the people, releasing something in them that allows them to do whatever it was on their minds when the effect took hold. In the comics, people talk about a "Meta-gene" that lies dormant until triggered but in "Smallville" whatever the trigger might be, the effect seems to be VERY "Personalized". The only connection between the Meteor Kryptonite and the green stones brought by the visitors from Krypton is the common origin on the planet itself. So, if these green stones from Krypton ALL have a psychic component Then, perhaps the deaths of billions of Kryptonians caused a "psychic trauma" for the stones that even communicated to the stones that were "Safe" on Earth. And perhaps the pain that Clark feels from exposure to the stones is this anguish from the death-knell of Krypton. (Then what about RED-K, you ask??? MAYBE...Red-K "felt" that awful anguish the same as the Green-K ... BUT JUST DIDN'T CARE!!!!) http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1217283#post1217283 The ancient kryptonite statues probably aren't a fluke. The series established "historical" green stones from Krypton in "Skinwalkers": *Kyla:* "The visitor from the stars supposedly brought special green stones, and they had really strange effects on the people. That's when they said the first skinwalkers appeared." It seems like the Kryptonians who brought Green stones (long) before 1989 would NOT have carried substances dangerous to themselves and certainly wouldn't have given them as love tokens to humans. So the likelihood in the plotline is that the stones in the "Guardian" figures were NOT dangerous to kryptonians before 1989. SO, what COULD make stones which were not part of the explosion of Krypton dangerous to Kryptonians? Isn't it possible that TPTB are trying to say that the whole conventional "Radioactivity" explanation of the effects of Kryptonite is NOT THE WHOLE STORY? They've had four-plus years using Kryptonite effects as the motivation for most of the plotlines in the show. First crack out of the box and EVERY step along the way the writers have CHANGED the traditional explanations about Kryptonite. After that amount of effort by so many people, I'll bet that a few of them did come up with a new and comprehensive guidelines to "explain" the mechanisms of this particular fantasy. As you say yourself, the understanding of the characters keeps changing as more evidence piles up. The writers don't even have to let the characters themselves know how Kryptonite works. But the stories work better, in a more "satisfying" way for the audience if there is an overall plan. In "Commencement", there were puh-lenty of reasons to have plain ole Kryptonite in Lex's Safe. TPTB specifically put the Chinese Guardian figure with kryptonite in the safe despite the fact that Fans had BLASTED them with the same questions about NON-EXPLOSION green stones after the first time "Sacred" was shown. Actually, using the statues complicated things even more because Chloe would ahve been more likely to recognize Kryptonite in "Meteor Rock" form than as polished decorative elements (supposedly humans don't see the green glow). The writers are specifically NOT trying to "forget their mistakes". The writers are not only telling us that the "traditional" explanations for Kryptonite don't apply here, they are underlining that message by adding TWO MORE Statues that that no-one has ever even seen before! My basic premise of the newly kryptonite effecting those kryptonite stones already here still fits all of the available plot points. You could call it "psychic residue", "resonance", "hyperspacial bocce ball" or "a virus that just effects green stones" but it "satisfies" the conditions of the puzzle we currently have in front of us. |
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Eh,Man?You-El?
Nov 10th, 2005 - 5:18 PM |
Re: Elements
The problems of "ancient kryptonite" are basically in trying to reconcile three pieces of information: 1. Comic book explaination(s) of Kryptonite as radioactive and that radioactivity being related to the destruction of Krypton. 2. Something or someone (probably Kryptonian) to bring Kryptonite to earth in time periods going back about a thousand years (a'la the Kawatchi legends) 3. Jor-El's trip to Earth in 1960s, indicating Krypton was un-exploded withi the last 40 years earth-time. A few suggestion have been that Kryptonite had been formed in the molten core of Krypton centures ago and that generally Kryptonians did not recognize that it was the source of "the green death" until the time of Jor-El. This suggests that kryptonians were not effected by Kryptonite as dramatically as Clark (and the "thugs from krypton") seem to be in the Smallville time period. In the comics, I seem to remember stories where Superman visited planets with red suns where kryptonitye didn't effect him (since he had already lost his powers). Even if such stories didn't exist, what if that's the missing piece - it's Kryptonite and the lack of a red sun that causes it to be immediately deadly to Kryptonians. Imagine that traveling Kryptonians found some significant benefits from bringing Kryptonite with them on trips to earth in the past. It could be that they did not recognize the effects of Kryptonite because they had lived most of their lives under a red sun, building up "Red-Sun vitamins" in their systems. It would take a significant amount of time seperated from the red sun before they became severely vulnerable. Still maybe the kryptonite was still easily detectable even by "resistant" by Kryptonians. Such travelers might very well place pieces of Kryptonite in key places as a clear signpost to other Kryptonians of something of interest. Now Clark, had spent virtually no time eposed to a red sun and that 12 years ago. He would be severely vulnerable to kryptonite effects. The same would hold for Nam-Ek and Aethyr who were waiting inside that ship for at least a decade. So a good general explanation for the Kryptonite anachronism might be Lack of Red sun vitamin "D". |
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Shirkie
Nov 10th, 2005 - 6:20 PM |
Re: Elements
GOOD STUFF... Wow. See, me, I just stomp my feet and yell "IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!," but you actually think of stuff to explain things. :D PS-- Take a look at the tremendous (toots own horn) progress I've made at www.ezrasmall.com/symbolsglyphs.htm The gallery is almost in its final shape! |
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Eh,Man?You-El?
Nov 13th, 2005 - 4:28 PM |
Re: Elements
Nice job on the Symbols/Glyphs pages! I look forward to the completion of the Kryptonian side. |
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Shirkie
Nov 13th, 2005 - 5:11 PM |
Re: Elements
Thanks, I am really working away on it... It is taking SO long. I think I'm nearly done... Possibly... Maybe... Sort of... I'm making an Isobel page to go alongside it, and probably going to take out the Elements page in its entirety now that I have the more detailed gallery stuff... Ahhhhhhhhh SO MUCH WORK. :) |
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kal-el
Mar 25th, 2006 - 4:23 AM |
Re: Elements
so far it sounds good but why couldent there be a nother explanation for the kryptonite being non radiated, and still having an effect on clark? first of all on krypton all the minerals were together so they would all effect the people there, kinda like turning up the heat then puting the air conditioner on to even it out. and by seporating the green kryptonite and using it to protect artifacts that were brought to earth so that only the strongest and most determined kryptonian would dare to try and get them. that way they would be safe from other kryptonians untill there was a great need for them. kal-el_son_of_jor-el@hotmail.com |
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Poweranimals
Oct 1st, 2006 - 1:19 AM |
Re: Elements
Actually, I think Kryptonite was always radioactive. Most planets tend to have radioactive cores, but as we know the Kryptonite has many uses. I suspect that they used it as a power source since as we've seen it's even been used by humans. On Krypton, it would've been as harmless to them as it is to humans due to the red sun. We've seen that Kryptonite doesn't effect Clark without his abilities. Once on Earth, they would've discovered that Kryptonite is harmful to them, but I'm sure they found a way to protect themselves from it. They were an advanced civilization afterall. I suspect that the Kryptonite was placed around the stones to protect it from evil Kryptonians like Zod coming to Earth and taking them. |
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Super Friend
Mar 12th, 2007 - 7:09 AM |
Re: Elements
There is another explanation about the Kryptonite that I found in a book called "Superman : The Ultimate Guide to the Man of Steel by Scott Beatty" which talks about Krypton in detail including their technology, culture and the seven ages. (I assume this information comes from the comics) Apparently there was a lot of experimentation with cloning which led to civil war. A man known as the Cleric had a device called the Eradictor which cause mutations in the Kryptonian DNA. This meant that only when the Kryptonians were on Krypton the radiation from the Kryptonite would not kill them. also this civil war was the event that caused Krypton's ulimate destruction as it is stated that a thermonuclear bomb caused the planets core to become Kryptonite and the planet to explode. Now the bomb exploded a thousand years before Krypton exploded and Kyptonians are only safe from the Kyptonite if they are on their own planet or one with a red sun. Also if you watch Superman: The Movie and hear what Jor-El says to Clark about being dead for thousand of Earth years when only a few years pass, you can come to the conclusion that it is possible for the first Krytonians to have visited Earth with the green jewels before the civil war happened and Kryptonians became sick and died in the presence of Kryptonite in an environment with only one yellow sun. What do people think of this assumption? If you want to understand it better, people should get a copy of the book I mentioned. It may be the only explanantion that fits this query as to why the early Kryptonians were not affected by the radiation from the Kryptonite and why Clark and any other Krytonian who visits Earth are immediately hurt by it. |
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CHRISTINE REES
May 10th, 2007 - 1:10 AM |
Re: LIONEL'S BLINDNESS
AFTER LIONEL LOST HIS EYESIGHT, THE EPISODE I DID SEE, HOW DID HE REGAIN HIS EYESIGHT? WAS THERE AN EPISODE? WHAT IS THE NAME OF IT? OR IS IT JUST ONE OF THOSE MYSTERIES OF THE SMALLVILLE SAGA? THANKS CHRIS  
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A29452117
Jan 11th, 2008 - 12:12 PM |
Re: Elements
Regarding the debate over the continuity of Kryptonite in this forum I thought I would shed some light on the problem. I hope this enlightens you. Now, The major question is "If the planet Krypton exploded, and if the resulting radiation from this explosion caused the Kryptonite to weaken Kryptonians, then how did Kryptonite come to be the eyes of the mask in the hidden room of the temple in China"? Well, here the answer. As revealed in the World of Krypton mini-series, the abortive detonation of a doomsday device by the Black Zero terrorist group (Superman #205 (1968) & 1988 World of Krypton) sets off a slow chain reaction within Krypton's core, causing the native elements of Krypton to fuse together into a new radioactive element. As millennia pass, the unique radiation from this element begins to kill increasing numbers of Kryptonians. It is this "unknown element" that later comes to be known as Kryptonite. Since this substance was present on Krypton for mellennia prior to it's destruction, it's perfectly plausible that Kryptonians brought some of this harmfull element to Earth to protect treasures such as the 3 stones of power (a.k.a the elements) from falling into dangerous Kryptonian hands. Hope this helps. |
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